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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 17, 2007 18:49:09 GMT -7
I know David can answer this, but maybe some others can chime in. Im still having problems with "solvent pop" with my cars. Im using Rubber Seal Urethane/hardener 2:1. I have tried less reducer, no reducer, more reducer, lower psi, higher psi, one thick coat, 2 lighter coats...nothing seems to work. I dont know if it is the brand of clear, the gun (im using about a $60 gravity gut with 1.4 micron opening) technique, or what. I was considering trying this other brand of product, which is a 4:1 mixture. First question is any other advice on what to try? Second is to take a look at this product and give me opinions on using this on the PWD cars: cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230162162231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013Thanks RC
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Post by F.A.S.T Racing on Aug 18, 2007 3:33:25 GMT -7
RC, What is the color coat you are spraying the clear over?
The color coat may still be out-gassing solvent into the clearcoat.
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 18, 2007 4:27:45 GMT -7
RC, What is the color coat you are spraying the clear over?
The color coat may still be out-gassing solvent into the clearcoat.
Well, this last batch was 6 cars....ALL of various paints. 2 were House of Kolor purple, one was Tester Spray, but the "MASTER" line of paint.. I cant remember the others. I dont think that THAT is the reason, because it happened with ALL the cars, anc it was well over a week between the the paint and clear. ALSO, I have wet sanded twice and reapplied the clear twice already, and it is still doing it. Thanks RC
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Post by P D D R 2 on Aug 18, 2007 10:00:13 GMT -7
I know David can answer this, but maybe some others can chime in. I'm still having problems with "solvent pop" with my cars. I'm using Rubber Seal Urethane/hardener 2:1. I have tried less reducer, no reducer, more reducer, lower psi, higher psi, one thick coat, 2 lighter coats...nothing seems to work. I dint know if it is the brand of clear, the gun (I'm using about a $60 gravity gut with 1.4 micron opening) technique, or what. I was considering trying this other brand of product, which is a 4:1 mixture. First question is any other advice on what to try? Second is to take a look at this product and give me opinions on using this on the PWD cars: cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230162162231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013Thanks RC I don't know what kinda of clear you are using, from experience I don't like to use no name brand paint products... Most cheaper clears will solvent pop easier than other top brands. What also might be happening to you is called fisheye... looks also like solvent pop... I don't know your air set up, but most cases are caused by improper air line set up... and you will get oil and water in your lines that will then be sprayed onto your surface... it only takes a very small amount that you will not see to cause you problems... You need a real good air line water filter before the air hose you use for spraying...also you can get a pre filter that screws onto the gun for extra help.. also being a pinewood builder and having all those lubes in your shop and if you use the same area to paint in, you can have a problem there as well... It don't take much to contaminate paint. Do you wipe your cars down with fast evaporating wax and grease remover before you paint them? If you can take a very good close up picture of your problem and show me so maybe I can tell what it is... Also how hot is it when you are painting? Do you blow it dry with the guns air inbetween coats? Do you have a fan blowing on the paint to make it dry faster? Do you paint in the sun? All of these things can make this happen...
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 18, 2007 17:42:19 GMT -7
I know David can answer this, but maybe some others can chime in. I'm still having problems with "solvent pop" with my cars. I'm using Rubber Seal Urethane/hardener 2:1. I have tried less reducer, no reducer, more reducer, lower psi, higher psi, one thick coat, 2 lighter coats...nothing seems to work. I dint know if it is the brand of clear, the gun (I'm using about a $60 gravity gut with 1.4 micron opening) technique, or what. I was considering trying this other brand of product, which is a 4:1 mixture. First question is any other advice on what to try? Second is to take a look at this product and give me opinions on using this on the PWD cars: cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=230162162231&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=013Thanks RC I don't know what kinda of clear you are using, from experience I don't like to use no name brand paint products... Most cheaper clears will solvent pop easier than other top brands. What also might be happening to you is called fisheye... looks also like solvent pop... I don't know your air set up, but most cases are caused by improper air line set up... and you will get oil and water in your lines that will then be sprayed onto your surface... it only takes a very small amount that you will not see to cause you problems... You need a real good air line water filter before the air hose you use for spraying...also you can get a pre filter that screws onto the gun for extra help.. also being a pinewood builder and having all those lubes in your shop and if you use the same area to paint in, you can have a problem there as well... It don't take much to contaminate paint. Do you wipe your cars down with fast evaporating wax and grease remover before you paint them? If you can take a very good close up picture of your problem and show me so maybe I can tell what it is... Also how hot is it when you are painting? Do you blow it dry with the guns air inbetween coats? Do you have a fan blowing on the paint to make it dry faster? Do you paint in the sun? All of these things can make this happen... I mentioned above, it is "RUBBER Seal" products. I know it is NOT fisheye, because I know what that is...I WILL get one or 2 on the car sometimes, and Im sure what Im explaining IS solvent pop. It is about 85-90* in my garage, out of sunlight...I have a fan in at the front of the garage blowing air OUT, and the setup is behind that. I have tried with AND withoug a 500 w light about 3 ft away to generate some dry heat. The weather is VERY humid in S FL. I will try to get a picture up. Thanks RC
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 18, 2007 18:29:49 GMT -7
Cant get REALLY good pics, but hopefully, you can see in here. RC
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 18, 2007 18:40:10 GMT -7
Here are a couple more...even better. RC
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Post by Mugiver Muscle Machines on Aug 19, 2007 12:12:53 GMT -7
Hey RC, i had that same problem, I was useing Dupli Color aerosol cans, i then took the paint out of the can and put it in my air-brush and the solvent pop went away! I don't know why but it worked for me, hope this helps.
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 19, 2007 15:18:04 GMT -7
Hey RC, i had that same problem, I was useing Dupli Color aerosol cans, i then took the paint out of the can and put it in my air-brush and the solvent pop went away! I don't know why but it worked for me, hope this helps. Thanks for the insight. Im hoping David checks out the pics and tells me what he thinks. I dont think it's the base color because it happened with all my last batch, and I used 4-5 different types/colors of paints. I was reading about it, and it mentioned that the heat may play a role because the top wet layer dries before all the solvent evaporates. ALSO, I am going to try going from 10% reducer to NO reducer....Less thinner, less solvent, less SP? Makes sense to me!! RC
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 22, 2007 3:30:30 GMT -7
Ok...tried a couple of things Tuesday...ON the darker car that looks really bad....I tried to sand out that thick area and it was still visible, so I reshot it, covering the yellow of the flame, but the rest still showing through. For the clear, I changed THREE Parameters. 1. Used NO reducer. 2. Changed to a siphon-feed touch up gun, 3. And Per David's suggestion, applied 2 dry coats before going "wet". Because of no reducer, the "orange peel" look was a little more pronounced, but not to bad. After about 2 hours, the clear DID show some signs of solvent pop, but it was VERY tiny, and very uniformly distributed (not concentrated in one area). There is NO WAY that It will show If I take photos, so today I will wet sand it and buff it out, and it should look ok. I know I changed 3 variables at once, which is usually not the way to ID a problem, But next time I will do the same as this, except use the 10% suggested reducer, and go one more light coat before the wet coat... There is a chance that the clear is just not good stuff, but Im willing to make a few more adjustments and live the results before chalking it up SOLELY to that. Thanks again for the suggested posts here and thanks again to DJ for taking the time to explain some things!!! RC
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 22, 2007 9:00:42 GMT -7
I wet sanded out the tiny solvent pop today then buffed it. Here are some pics...If you look closely near the center of the body, you will see some trace of the solvent pop still remaining, although loads better. I had to cover the multi tone flame with the purple, which is why it's a solid color now, but all in all, considering all the "redos" that were done, does not look too bad. If I can get those (cough cough) wheels from Glenn, this car will be in Stock. Thanks RC
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Post by Hillbilly Kustoms on Aug 25, 2007 15:36:02 GMT -7
Hey, I haven't been on here for a while, I've been swamped with work and haven't had a lot of time to do derby stuff.
In my experience, I only reduce when doing bigger jobs, it basically extends the 'open' time of the clear and allows me to have time to spray a vehicle without creating a lot of dry edges. On small stuff like derby cars, I don't use reducer as I'm not concerned about a dry edge. And, on the good side of things, it is much less likely to solvent pop.
As an alternate technique (this one is tricky), you can also do several very light coats, with less flash time between applications, just be sure you're in a clean enviroment as it will take a while to build the clear and it will be tacky while you're painting so anything end everything will stick to it.
Hope this assists you!
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 26, 2007 4:57:23 GMT -7
Hey, I haven't been on here for a while, I've been swamped with work and haven't had a lot of time to do derby stuff. In my experience, I only reduce when doing bigger jobs, it basically extends the 'open' time of the clear and allows me to have time to spray a vehicle without creating a lot of dry edges. On small stuff like derby cars, I don't use reducer as I'm not concerned about a dry edge. And, on the good side of things, it is much less likely to solvent pop. As an alternate technique (this one is tricky), you can also do several very light coats, with less flash time between applications, just be sure you're in a clean enviroment as it will take a while to build the clear and it will be tacky while you're painting so anything end everything will stick to it. Hope this assists you! Would you want to use a little more reducer if you are doing it that way, to reduce the orange peel from several coats, or use the same mixture you would normally use? Thanks RC
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Post by Hillbilly Kustoms on Aug 30, 2007 22:17:13 GMT -7
The bubbles in the cup of waste are normal, when you spray the clear through the gun it atomizes the material and the bubbles become a non issue.
Bubbles are normally only from solvent pop, moisture in the line, or out dated catalyst. I am not saying this is the only way you'll get them but these are the typical places to begin looking.
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Post by 94 GT Laser RC on Aug 31, 2007 3:38:58 GMT -7
I called my painter friend Thursday. He said not to "waste" my money on Dupont. He said he uses the stuff he gave me, and that it must be something else. He told me next time I want to shoot a few cars to call him, and he will come over and do for me...that way we can rule out the "technique". He wants to see the compressor, gun, and spray conditions.
Thanks for the replies! RC
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