rlaton
PDDR Forum Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by rlaton on Aug 18, 2009 20:39:12 GMT -7
Hey guys, I'm new to the board and like all the other newbies I've got some questions. Don't know if this is asking for too much information or not. I've got the basics. Rear cant, railriding, all the normal stuff. Can't figure out this FDW cant thing though. I'm getting conflicting stories. If I put the top of the wheel in (Positive Cant I think), I can steer it to the rail and the wheel still goes to the axle head. When I run the wheel out at the top, it goes to the body both on the alignment board and on the track at full speed. I've read where you need more turn to the rail to get it to PUSH the wheel to the axle head but I can't get it to go out. Grooved axles, ungrooved axles, it doesn't 'matter it goes to the body. Some have told me that this is correct. Just polish the body really good where the wheel hits. Others say no, that it should still go to the head. Which way is preferred and if it is supposed to still go out, how do you do it. I have tried drilling the downward cant at 1.5 degrees and having an axle with a small bend to adjust. I have tried a straight axle hole with a small bend (1.5 degrees) and up to 5 degrees and seemingly everywhere in between. Nothing seems to work. All help is appreciated. Thanks in advance. BTW, can't wait to talk more with some of you guys. I've been hanging around the derbytalk.com board for a while. Have a good night.
|
|
|
Post by Carolina Gravity Sports on Aug 18, 2009 21:06:44 GMT -7
Welcome aboard, you will find this is a wonderful place to find info. as well as race.
As for your question, you will find that you will get more speed with your wheel out at the top and the bottom closer to the rail. You want the wheel to roll with the rail instead of the wheel scrubbing down on the rail. As for the wheel rubbing against the body, it's going to do it and that is completely normal. I use to think the force of the steer into the rail would push it to the axle head but it doesn't. If you look at the slow motion videos of the Pure Stock and Stock, you will see that just about everybody runs there FDW that way and some of the fastest racers in the country are here. Just make sure that area is slick and coated good with graphite or if you are running oil make sure that area has a good layer of clearcoat and polish it good.
You are another fellow Carolinian aren't you? There are several others here also.
|
|
|
Post by Cam-Car Racing on Aug 18, 2009 21:13:15 GMT -7
Welcome to the boards, riaton. It looks like you have done your homework.
I'll tell you what I have learned about the FDW. In my testing and looking at the fastest cars in the league, you do want the wheel to tilt outwards at the top, making the wheel ride on the outside edge. Also, just enough steer into the rail to eliminate wobble. You are correct that this configuration will cause the wheel to ride into the body of the car although some say that the pressure of the wheel against the rail will push it back towards the axle head. I haven't been able to determine that this is the case though. I can still see a little circle against the car body where the wheel rubs. In any event, this setup seems to produce the fastest times so I would go with it.
Good luck.
|
|
|
Post by W Racing on Aug 18, 2009 21:22:30 GMT -7
Rlaton,
A great PDDR Welcome to you. You cant get any better advice than Cam-Car and Carolina. If you are in NC there is a nationals race and workshop happening This Friday and Saturday.
Post as many questions as you like and Welcome again!
|
|
|
Post by W Racing on Aug 18, 2009 21:32:01 GMT -7
|
|
rlaton
PDDR Forum Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by rlaton on Aug 19, 2009 6:31:06 GMT -7
Thanks guys !! Sounds like there is no doubt that the front wheel needs to be out at the top then. I'll polish up the body real slick and that should help. Carolina, yes, we are from NC. We are hoping to make it this weekend as well. I couldn't stand it with it being this close to us. I cut out a car Monday night. Hope to try to paint it *** TODAY *** and mess with alignment tomorrow night. Couple more questions while I am at it. (Let me know when I get on your nerves !!)
1. Do you drill your DFW axle hole down and run a bent axle to align or do you drill your DFW axle hole straight and run a bent axle to align?
2. We have some "Wrap" like some of the derby sights sell. Thought about wrapping the car instead of painting. This is legal for this weekend isn't it? Should be quicker than trying to paint. (I run a body shop. How stupid does that last statement sound !! You can never find time to work on your own stuff !!) Time is kind of running short right now !!
Thanks for the help guys !!
|
|
|
Post by Bones on Aug 19, 2009 6:39:00 GMT -7
|
|
|
Post by W Racing on Aug 19, 2009 7:05:07 GMT -7
For sure do not paint the car on such short order...
You can leave it bare or wrapp it. I would leave it bare. Our Stock track record holding car is bare. Pure Stock record holding car is wrapped in plastic. I would leave it bare unless the plastic lays down nice for you...
Most folks drill the rears at 2.5 degrees negative cant.
Fronts straight and bend DFW axle 2.5 degrees with positive cant as described in all the posts above. (Of course with Bones going 3-5 degrees I am going to try that out. :-))
However that is fine tuning. 2.5 will be plenty fast. If you had time you could try 1.5 2.5 3.5, etc... However it is too many variables for first car of this configuration.
Be sure to narrow the front DFW side of the car 1/16"
Height of holes varies. You will be fine to drill the rears half way up the car body, (Asuming max car thiockness 3/8 inch. How are you weighting the car and how thick is it? and what shape is it?)
The most common COM mentioned on the board for a pure stocker is 3/4". Most things work. However keep it under 1 oz on the front wheel.
Eventually you will want to get the block. I am sure it will be for sale at the race... The precission you can drill the holes with is insane...
If you have time you can balance the wheels.
Most folks use Hobe-e-lub here. It is plenty fast.
|
|
rlaton
PDDR Forum Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by rlaton on Aug 19, 2009 7:22:43 GMT -7
Car is very thin. 1/4" or less with a CAP over the tungstun round. Looks like a LADDER basically. Probably need to wrap or at least put clear tape on the top and bottom for aerodynamics don't you think? Front end is narrowed. BTW, Bones, how do you bend an axle 5 degrees? I know how to drill a hole 5 degrees but all I've got is the rail riding tool which is 1.5 or 2.5. Did you make another tool or are you estimating?
|
|
|
Post by W Racing on Aug 19, 2009 7:25:51 GMT -7
For sure you want to wrap it. ALso re-read my last post as I updated it :-)
Holes in the center of the car slow things down :-)
What axles are you running?
|
|
rlaton
PDDR Forum Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by rlaton on Aug 19, 2009 7:50:34 GMT -7
Not sure yet which axles or wheels I am running. I have a little bit of everything. I have the boxy type wheels from MB with the non grooved axles that come with it. I have Warps lightened wheels with his grooved axles. I have the oversized grooved axles from MB that are nickle plated. I've got some from Max V that are grooved and some that are just trued up and burrs removed. Too many variables here. Somebody with some know how point me in the right direction please. I learned a long time ago, don't be hard headed. You can't beat experience. If somebody knows something you don't, ASK !!
|
|
|
Post by W Racing on Aug 19, 2009 8:06:37 GMT -7
Use the nickel plated axles from MB and wheels from MB.
I used grooved from MB or jewkesengineering.com however the non-grooved nickel plated are very fast as well.
|
|
rlaton
PDDR Forum Member
Posts: 8
|
Post by rlaton on Aug 19, 2009 8:31:05 GMT -7
OK, let me clarify. I've got some nickle plated grooved axles I purchased from somebody. May have been Max V. Smooth pointed tips. I'm pretty sure he said they were oversized. .092 maybe. I can't remember. That may not be right. Seems like they were .003 larger than stock BSA axles. I also have some wheels that I got from somebody that are very boxy. They don't have any spokes on the outside and they don't have any ridges on the outside edge. They have a much smaller hole in them. They come with smooth axles. I think they are .089 maybe. No grooves. I don't have any MB wheels. I've gotta go with the boxy ones I just mentioned or go with Warp Ultra Lites. Which do you think is the better of the two. If I go with the boxy ones, should I use the smooth axles that came with it or go with Warp grooved axles? I can't use the larger ones due to the smaller hole in the wheel. If I go with Warp wheels, should I use the regular type grooved axles or go with the oversized? Decisions, decisions, decisions. All help is appreciated.
|
|
|
Post by W Racing on Aug 19, 2009 8:38:26 GMT -7
The boxy ones are going to place you in super stock. That is not the place to be.
For Now used the ligtned BSA wheels with oversized axles. You can the go extended on the wheel base and run in stock class
|
|
|
Post by Classy Chassis on Aug 19, 2009 11:14:59 GMT -7
Welcome rlaton I'm excited to see our NC racers increase. It would really be good if you could attend the workshop this Friday night at 1118-D Old Greensboro Rd. in Kernersville, NC. (MB's shop) Glenn and David Jewkes are coming in from Utah to teach us all how to build and paint a better, faster car. A lot of the big racers will be there and would be glad to help you. Anyway, good luck and I look forward to racing with you. ~Classy
|
|